Brisbane’s Legal Lowdown: Busting aged care myths

Carla: Alright, it’s time for this week’s Brisbane legal lowdown with Attwood Marshall Lawyers. Today, we’re going to be talking about some of the common myths or misconceptions that are going around at the moment about aged care. The sort of things that we hear from well-meaning neighbours or friends.

Rather than relying on second-hand stories though, we’re again joined by accredited aged care professional and senior paralegal Bindy Marshall from Attwood Marshall Lawyers to give us the facts and help our listeners make sense of what’s really going on.

Good afternoon to you, Bindy.

Bindy: Hello, how are you, Carla?

Carla: I’m wonderful. If anyone’s got any questions, let’s just go from the outset, email us through afternoons@4bc.com.au or of course that open line number, thanks to watch smoke alarms 133 882.

We’re talking the common myths and misconceptions around aged care. You’re the perfect person to talk to about this.

Bindy: Yes.

Carla: There’s a lot of fear around aged care and most people want to avoid it altogether. They rally against it. Aged care facilities, they’re not as sterile or as clinical as people might think?

Bindy: No, they’re absolutely not. And if you were to, I mean, they were when we look back, say rewind the clock 15 years ago, they were. They were just a bed in a room, very sterile. But now, oh my gosh. There’s movie theatres, there’s chill down rooms, there’s pools. I mean, put me in one. Sign me up. Right. I don’t want to have to cook or do my own laundry again.

Carla: I’m the same.

Bindy: Especially when you’ve got kids. So for me it’s they are not as bad as they seem and for anyone transitioning in who has a fear around that and that’s their point of I’m never going into one. I’m not going to be in a bed rotting. You don’t have to be.  

There are lifestyle programs, there’s high tea at three o’clock. Then they’ve got the harpist coming in for a chill down session and an exercise. You have no idea what these people have.

Carla: But Bindy, do you pay for that privilege? What? Is there a real variance in the type of care you get depending on where you get, if you can, if you’re lucky enough to find placement?

Bindy: Look, absolutely you are correct. And placement can be a little bit challenging, but it can vary from facility to facility. It’s really good to go to a few of them. It also it comes down to the affordability.

Because every room has a market price attached to it. Now it depends on your financial circumstances whether you’re fully supported, a market payer, or partially supported by the government. But the government has not put a barrier there. It doesn’t matter if it’s the Hilton, you can still go to the Hilton as opposed to Shady Pines down the road.

So you could go to either. And you’re not being penalised just because you’re a full pensioner and you can’t afford the same as someone who can afford, you know, 700,000 in a RAD.

Carla: Right. Okay. But another one of the big concerns, I guess other than the misconception that that those places are you know some facilities are sterile, clinical, is that you lose your independence. Is that generally what happens when someone moves into an aged care facility?

Bindy: Big myth busted. Absolutely not. The facilities are actually designed to give you your independence back. They want you to make decisions for yourself. They enhance your life. So, they are there to put the physios in and the podiatrists, and all of those people that rally around, just to give you that little bit more of a step up in your health.

Obviously, designing activities to keep your mind sharp and exercises in the morning and it’s all varied depending on your level of capability,. So I’d like to bust that myth. I think that’s why our residents are living so much longer in care, to be fair.

Carla: I was going to say cause their lives are so much more enriched than previously in in, you know, in I guess, this is not what I’m saying is now, but I would look back at, you know, my Nana or whatever going through and it was like an institution. It was like a sanitarium.

Bindy: Correct. Like the same as my nan. And I think when we look back at what it was years ago, we didn’t know then what we know now and I think because we are enhancing people’s lives, just to give you an idea, the tenure in care 10 years ago was 2 years. Now we’re at 5 plus.

Carla: Wow.

Bindy: So that gives you an understanding of exactly where we’re at now. This is actually one of my favourite topics.

Carla: I can see you are very passionate.

Bindy: I really am.

Carla: Now the big myth that we hear a lot about often is that if someone reduces their assets, say, by gifting money to a family before entering care that it would somehow affect their Centrelink assessments or aged care fees or something. What’s that all about?

Bindy: Massive myth. Never give your money away. It’s what’s seen as a deprivation of an asset. So, it will be assessed against you for the next 5 years like you’ve still got it, and keep your fees quite high.

So, I know that there’s a lot of what we call inheritance impatience out there. Where families think, Oh, Mum’s had to sell her home. She’s got all this surplus cash sitting in the bank. We’ve paid her RAD. She won’t need that. Absolutely, she does. And Centrelink, we’re not the lucky country, we can’t prop everybody up and have the government pay for everybody’s fees, so therefore there is a contribution if you do have a home, there is a contribution to your care.

So, I I’ve seen this more often than not. My daughter’s going to come and live with me and I won’t need to sell my home. Then I’m just going to give it to my daughter. Heck no. Do not do that.

Seek advice.

Carla: Okay. Yeah, because that’s the other thing, too, that I’m told that you can only afford residential aged care if you own your own home, you’re going to have to sell it and put it towards your whole care.

Bindy: No, big myth bust. So, let’s go back. So, we were talking before about fully supported residents, partially supported residents, and what we call market payer residents. These are people who have assets sort of over the $210,000 mark.

Carla: So might that be super or like a house or whatever else?

Bindy: Correct. That’s exactly right. And then the fully supported people, let’s go back to the pensioners, cause these are the people that think that they can’t afford care. So, what happens is when you transition into care, you’re assessed as fully supported.

The government pay for everything but $65.55 a day. That’s your contribution to your care.

Which it’s equivalent to about 85 per cent of the age pension, so it’s affordable for everyone, and that remaining 15 per cent will go towards your medications, your haircuts, your outings, your chocolates, those types of things.

So, it’s really, really important to know that it’s not unattainable for people who are on a pension. The government don’t penalise you, they’ve actually put measures in place to support you.

Carla: Okay. Because and that’s the other sort of lead on question I have and for me it’s more personal because then I’m led to believe that it diminishes the choice, the places that you can go to.

Bindy: Look, every facility has about 40 per cent of what we call fully supported or partially supported residents because the government tips in for those residents.

They can’t really take over that because then it diminishes their earnings as well. So, you’ve got to remember that it’s a gentle balance.

But like I said, it doesn’t matter if it’s the Hilton or if it’s Shady Pines. Whoever you feel comfortable going with, if they have a fully supported bed, then absolutely they’re going to want you in that bed so that they can get their full supplement from the government.

Carla: Amazing. Look, if you’ve got a question that you’d like to ask Bindy Marshall here from Attwood Marshall Lawyers, she’s an accredited aged care professional and a senior paralegal, and an absolute force to be reckoned with in this space. If you’ve got a question, 133 882 is the open line number thanks to watch smoke alarms, or you can text it through as well 0499 880 882.

Alright, what about, you just mentioned before about, you know, moving in your adult child and then just gifting the house? What about situations where an adult child is still living in the home, if a parent moves into care but wants their child to stay in the property, how is that treated?

Bindy: So, that opens us up to protected persons, like we were talking about before, and for those who aren’t familiar with the term, a protected person is your spouse, your child or carer who’s lived with you for a certain period of time.

So, if it’s your spouse, you’re a protected. And you can remain in the home. You do not need to sell that home. Myth busted.

If you are an adult child who’s been living with mum or dad for the past five years, receiving an income support payment, will then you are entitled to stay in the property. When I’m talking income support payment, that means carer pension, not carer allowance. So, there’s lots of different avenues for protected persons and it is really, really important to seek advice around that.

Carla: I’ve got a practical question. And one that we get often. And thank you for all the suggestions that have been texted through for anyone that’s considering moving into aged care, and that has a pet, what are the options? Because so many times we see that the pets have to be surrendered because they can’t go with the person into aged care.

And that’s very sad for everyone involved, not just the pets.

Bindy: You’re exactly right. And look, pets are our fur babies, right. They are our family. So, I know that on the Gold Coast and some facilities here in Brisbane, actually accept your pet and the nursing staff actually look after your pet as well. Yeah, they do. I mean, clearly if Nana has Monty Python. They’re not going to look after Monty, the pet snake. That’s just a no go.

Carla: That’s well, Nana’s a weirdo. I’ve said it before on this show. Anyone who has a reptile is strange. Even you nan.

Bindy: But if you’ve got a small cat or dog or something like. The likelihood is some facilities will accept you. We do have things called hybrid facilities now, which is private aged care that comes under the retirement village model. But it’s really important to know that they will accept all pets.

And that pivots for a lot of people to know that they can still receive care in their own apartment with their pet, and the carers will walk their pet, they receive care in 15-minute increments. So, there’s lots of different variations around there.

Carla: That also helps with independence as well, because that’s a type of thing that they’re used to living with independently before going into care.

Bindy: That’s right. And look, if they do have to go into a facility where they’re really chronically unwell, then I would suggest and it’s not an ad, but I would strongly recommend getting in touch with the Animal Welfare League.

They have a really important program called the Golden Hearts program and that’s for people who are aged. They actually will foster the pet out. Some foster parents or pet parents will actually bring the animal to the facility to visit the loved one. That’s not an obligation for the foster parent, but they can obviously request that and it’s really important to keep those two connected. We had a lovely lady who had a 17-year-old greyhound who slept on a heated blanket in bed all its life and she had to go into care unfortunately. But oh my gosh, her face lights up every time that dog goes into the facility. It’s really spesh.

Carla: That’s sweet. Thank you so much for your text 0499 880 882. Anne has text ed in about home care wait lists. I’m assuming this is about the Aged Care Act that’s come into effect last month. Are wait lists any shorter now under the new system?

Bindy: So no, unfortunately, so there’s good news and bad news. So, let’s look at the good news first. The good news is that the wait list for an ACAT is going down. So we are seeing that go down and assessments are taking place about 3 to 4 weeks, so that’s a far cry from 12 months. However, however, then we’ve still got about 87,000 people still on the wait list waiting for a home care package.

So, it’s one thing to be approved, but it’s another to receive the package and that’s where our block is.

Carla: Okay, that’s where the backlog is happening.

Do we see that moving at anytime soon?

Bindy: Oh, look, Canberra had reduced, or they had released another 20,000 packages, but as you can imagine.

Carla: That’s nothing. That’s a quarter of the people that are waiting.

Bindy: Correct, but even then, we’ve got that many people continuing to come on board. So, we have an ageing population. Unfortunately for that lovely listener, I wish I had good news and say, yes, there’s more coming. But, no, this is a watch and wait.

Carla: Alright, well, we’re not going to shoot the messenger. No, thank you for providing that bad news to us.

Carla: Before we wrap up, Bindy, there’s a legal document that ties all of this together. The enduring power of attorney. And many people assume that that they must appoint their children as their attorney. Do they have to? What about those who don’t have kids? Do they have other options?

Bindy: No, definitely not. The power of attorney is a document that acts for you while you’re alive. We actually find people in quite sticky situations because they feel obligated to put their child in as the power of attorney. The child reluctantly accepts. And then when the wheels fall off and they actually have to look after mum or dad, that’s when we start to see that we’ll just shove them in a home and forget about them, because that way that it’s all looked after, we set up the direct debits, we don’t have to do anything as the enduring power of attorney.

When that’s not the role. Our role as enduring powers of attorney is to support the person. So really you should be putting someone in that’s trusted. I’m not saying that your child is not trustworthy. It’s purely for the fact that you need to have your wishes acknowledged and fulfilled because if you say, look, I don’t want to go into an aged care facility. I want you to exhaust my funds to keep me at home. Then that’s what your child should be doing.

Carla: Yeah, and I’m glad that we have you to make sense of it all. And of course, you and your colleagues from Attwood Marshall Lawyers.

Bindy Marshall, thank you so much for coming on to the program. As always, on the afternoons and, of course, if we want to catch up with you, we can via the website.

Bindy: Absolutely. And thank you all so much and Merry Christmas.

Carla: Merry Christmas to you too. Oh, happy birthday more importantly. It’s birthday week. It’s a special birthday for you as well, so, happy birthday.

Bindy: It is birthday week. I know 21. I love it.

Carla: Good on you. Have a great weekend, start it early because I know the celebrations are starting soon.

Bindy: I’ve reminded my husband all week it’s birthday week.

Carla: Knock off early. You have an early mark. I’ve approved it. Thank you so much, Bindy Marshall.